Elina Yumasheva interviewed by Beverley Harrison, October 29, 2024.
Elina
So, I am developing a body of work, that was originally developed for the graduate show. These are Living Forms, there are two of them. So, you can see it. It's kind of a package. The organizer of the exhibition at the Saatchi packed it very nicely for me, so I was just keeping it like that.
These are the (two paintings) a diptych that I've created, but the idea is to build more and more pieces. This is about some I am currently working on. So the painting could be extended, multidimensionally. And yeah, I don't know. There was something about this movability and these pieces are talking about living forms. And, there is an element of experimentation and giving away the control, which was inspired by using natural materials.
When I started using only natural dyes or pigments, I realized it was actually quite frustrating, because I realized that I as a creator don't have the same level of control of the outcome, because these materials behave completely differently depending on what they are. And, they have a very strong voice and synthetic materials are much easier to control. But then, it made me think that synthetic materials were created by humans for humans, to be used in very specific purposes, while natural materials were not created for humans to be used as, you know, dyes or pigments. And that completely changed the power relationships between the painting well, I'll say the artwork, the role of the creator and the role of material you're using, and as a creator, you had to give away control and let the materials and materiality and the process of creation guide the outcome.
So that's why in my starting points for the paintings, I am usually very free and loose and just letting the first marks happen and be guided by the materials. And, it's only after these layers have been set a few times, which could be ten different attempts of going there and creating the marks. It's only then I go and add the accents, as an artist who wants to be more in control and just work with the existing forms and just emphasize certain aspects - work with the colour, create the depth, add luminosities. Luminosity is very, very present, I think, in all my works, and ultimately, with everything I do, I try to capture that luminosity, that glow, that light that is coming within the paintings and depth.
Just going back to why I like the idea of using different canvases, as opposed to just painting one big painting, for example. I think there is also an idea of moving and sort of liquid forms, because it's not set in stone. Nature is not set in stone. Everything is moving and changing, and I think we should acknowledge that. And by doing that, I think we stay well, I stay more true to the nature’s laws because it's very much inspired by those processes.
I think there are two main dimensions of my practice. One is painting, I would say. The other one, I would say is expanded painting. It could be installation, it could be something sculptural, but essentially, I see myself ultimately as a painter, who just sometimes moves beyond canvas and uses different materials to express similar ideas, because there is a limitation to the canvas. And my canvas pieces are quite stable, in terms of they're not going to fade, because I found different ways and researched ways of preserving the pigments and the colour, by creating the right sort of layers and chemical processes when I use dyes, so the dyes really, the pigments, really bond into a fibre. Then, I cover it with the non-toxic varnish that also protects from the UV fading. Obviously, as any painting, a painting shouldn't be exposed to direct sunlight for months, but otherwise it has the same qualities as other traditional paintings.
But, when it comes to working with silks or an expanded practice, I think there is an element of fading. It represents the impermanence of being and it's part of the package, if you wish. While this is a sort of capturing the moment in time that is relatively stable and can last for, you know, for a long time. There is also an important element of talking about the fact - why should we want to create something that lasts forever, it is not natural. So, I capture those processes through my other works, silks, and my so-called expanded pieces.
Beverley
I think what you're saying is that it really does come from this idea of what is, what really are the mechanisms of the natural world and the movement within the natural world and how do you capture that? How do you use that and become one with that in your painting, I suppose, so there is not an inconsistency, in the way that you're working and thinking.
Elina
Yeah, absolutely. And also it's quite important, since I talk about these environmental issues. It's really important for me to stay true to the materials, as well. That's why it's very eco conscious. And obviously I wouldn't call it sustainable, because it's a big stretch and to make a claim like that, you have to research a lot, and you know, trace the materials back to the source. But it’s certainly nontoxic. And that's why in my practice, I guess, it's about living up to what you preach in a way.
Beverley
That's it, and it also addresses health and safety concerns that are talked about in the art world, as to if we and artists are exposing ourselves to materials that are toxic.
Elina
And also, it's very interesting. I've been thinking about it recently. The whole eco conscious art practice is perceived as something new, right? And something trendy. Actually, it's not quite, right. If you think about the old ways, the old masters and how they've been creating their work, which is now perfectly safely preserved in the galleries and museums, they didn't have any petrochemicals back then. Why is it so ingrained in our brains now that we using petrochemicals and all of that is the main way and this is the standard, when it's not, it is the ugly way to create art. It’s a very recent development.
Beverley
Yes, it's quite new to industrialization, you know, Modernism, a certain type of Modernism, you see that with acrylics and abstract painting and spray paints. These different types of paints are highly chemical materials, including petrochemicals.
Elina
Exactly petrochemical materials. So, I could be an environmentally driven artist, or I could be more you know, following the old masters’ ways of creating art. It depends how you spin it. It was very interesting when I went to Frieze this year, I saw a growing number of artists, well, rather artworks that use natural materials, natural pigments and dyes that were represented by big mainstream galleries. One of them was Struth and Magers. I went and approached all the galleries that had artists like that, and I asked all the questions that I'm being asked by the gallerists and lecturers about preservation and the fact that it's not using petrochemicals and all of that, and they said collectors don’t worry about it, if they see value in the piece, they see value in the artist, that's it. It's about preserving it in the right way. And I was under the impression that it was a bit of a negative for me, that I'm not just using normal paint. But, actually, I think there is a growing awareness that petrochemicals doesn't mean safe and long lasting. It means it's just maybe bad for the environment, and there is an acknowledgment by a growing number of artists who choose natural materials. And all that sort of thing is in the mainstream, in the blue chip gallery level, which is very encouraging.
Beverley
Yeah, I think this is really important, as well, because as you say, there's this whole long tradition that went on for centuries where natural materials were used for painting and pigments, whether in materials or painting. And, I think that this is something that has lasted for centuries, it's just how we take care of them.
Elina
Yeah. And it's about going back to that and nobody is teaching you how to do it. It's much easier to stand in line and just buy some acrylic paints. But, you have to really investigate and research it yourself and experiment to find all the older ways to do it. And in my opinion, it makes it more precious and more valuable.
Beverley
Well, that's it, because you are starting from scratch, as a total process. Yeah. And how did you research and find out how to make the dyes.
Elina
So, a lot of it was as part of the RCA Sustain Lab, research and network. And then, the RCA’s Dye and Prefab in South Kensington, the technicians are amazing. Elinor and Eloise, they were just holding hands, helping and sharing all the knowledge they have, as to how to do it. So, I used a lot of textile methods to understand how dyes work. Also, there is Jesse Ash, who is a tutor for the painting MA. He is very much in an environmentalist himself with Sally, who is a tutor in Writing. They set up this Green Futures group, which is essentially helping students as well, to create a more environmentally aware approach to their practice. And yeah, otherwise, it’s just researching it myself and talking to people, but networking is really important and having a group of like-minded people, where you can share ideas and compare the notes is so crucial.
Obviously, it's, you know, lots of experimentation and seeing what works, what doesn't. And, as I said, natural materials are so much more fiddly, so you might be following exactly the same process, but the outcome would be different. So you should always allow for that, allow room for that freedom. And take away, come down a bit as the creator and let the materials guide you also.
Beverley
It's so interesting. I think is really beautiful too, when you're painting and there seems to be this flow that occurs so naturally; whereby, you allow a sort of rhythm and the flow of the materials on the canvas.
Elina
Yeah, absolutely. And I say to this painting, I move around. I never paint it from one angle, because I like the fluidity of the process and, it keeps on rotating all the time and I approach it from here, from, the wall, rotating it, and keep working with that view.
Beverley
So, it's a very physical kind of thing.
Elina
Very physical, yeah, there is a definite element of expressionism to it and the formative element as well, especially at the beginning, when I'm just letting the seemly diluted dyes or inks flow. I just move around it and move the canvas, work with a brush, it's quite gestural. I think there is a very interesting tension between control and experimentation and accident. And there is a great joy in really relinquishing that control and that tension between control and accident is also very much the essence of our life and all we do is just try to be in charge of everything that is happening, but it's absolutely beyond our control. And while we're able to capture a tiny bit of our life and feel like, okay, we're in charge of it, the majority of things that happen are actually beyond what we can do. So I think that this process of art creation captures our being in a way.
Beverley
Yes, there's always that aspect of accident, I suppose, and surprise, as to how things will mix and meld together, as you anticipated. And then as you say, you go back and then you add the luminosity, highlights, the emphasis that you wanted.
Elina
That's right, you can see, for example, here, all the thin layers, there are just inks and dyes. But then, here, this is oil paint with marble dust. This is oil paint with chalk here. So, you see, it’s just about adding those layers, and highlights, emphasis and chalk.
Beverley
Yes, so it is also about actual mixes of chalk and dust, so that you have this kind of materiality that way.
Elina
Yes, materiality is a huge thing for me. I am always drawn to it. But I think I started understanding its meaning a bit better, once I started respecting the materials that I am working with and letting them guide my process. And by that, I don't necessarily mean only paints and the dyes, I also mean materials and fabrics. This, for example, is not a cotton. This is calico, a medium weight calico because, if it was a canvas, it would have absorbed stains. The veins and staining processes would have been completely different. But, I found that this medium weight calico is actually perfect for what I'm trying to achieve. While if it was silk, for example, it would have been so much more absorbing and flowy. So again, it's about expanding the visual and materiality recovery and knowing what materials to use, and how they behave, depending on the outcome I'm trying to achieve, or rather the emotion I'm trying to capture, being confident about choosing the right materials to convey that emotion.
Beverley
I hadn’t thought of it. I just assumed they were canvases. I didn't realize that you were experimenting with the surface of what you were painting on.
Elina
Yeah, yeah, the fabrics. And also, it would be interesting for you to know that the process of the material is also the process of creation. For example, these layers of inks and dyes are applied on a raw canvas. Not canvas - calico. Though it was premordant in certain salts, so it absorbs the pigments into the fibres, so it's quite stable. I mean in principle, you can even wash it, so it would be stable, because I use textile methods of dying, to create the first layer. Okay. And then, once I’m happy with the dyes and inks, obviously inks won’t be washable. It's only dyes. I then apply a plant-based sealer, made of cellulose, which is essentially used as a primer-sealer for the canvas/calico. And only then, do I go with oil paint, on top of it, which isn't exactly the traditional way of doing it. The traditional way would be to apply a primer, a sealer and then paint on top of it. While I do one layer of inks and dyes, and then I apply the sealer, and then I apply oil, so the oil wouldn’t damage the fabric. Then on top of it, I go on top of it with a non-toxic varnish, which I found recently.
But that's only for the paintings, for silks and other works, I would not do that, I would only premordant the fabrics, again to ensure that the pigments really bind onto the fabric, but then I wouldn't be applying any protection, because fading would be part of their process.
Beverley
So, with the silks you just do the natural dyes.
Elina
And, ink sometimes. I can show you. I have my piles of silks. So, this is silk and natural dyes. It could be used as a scarf actually. You see how the staining process is so different, and the way silk behaves and absorbs the colours. You can touch it, if you want.
Beverley
It's so this beautiful, the way it bleeds, spreads at the same time. This is lovely, so feathering.
Elina
Yeah. It’s so fine silk as well. This is a slightly different process. This was using the dyes, but also pigment powder. And it's soaking into the vinegar solution.
Beverley
So, you soaked it first?
Elina
You basically spray a lot of vinegar and you put the dyes in a powder format and then soak it for 24 hours and then you wash it. With powder, it has this nice effect with dots, powder effect, I guess.
And this is a very different method. This is a dying method, where I used natural indigo. It's using a dye bath, where I would dip it in a boiling sort of pot with a dye and create these sort of shapes and stains. It's actually looks quite landscape-like. My sort of interest here was working with different shades and depending how long you keep it in the dye bath the intensity of the colour, you know, goes up and the colour becomes a bit more rich and you're working with what's the word, not gradation, not shading. I forgot the words. Like when you go from clear to more pale red and what's the word for that? It's clear but also fading. I just created this body of work, so I can do things with it later.
Beverley
Yeah, sort of in terms of developing a methodology and how to get the effects you want.
Elina
So, yeah, I spent a lot of time at the Dye and Ink Lab, experimenting with the natural dyes and materials and fabrics.
These are similar experiments, but with cotton. And this one I’ve done as a sort of place mat. I've done it as a collaboration for a Design Product for the graduate show. It's one of the natural dyes, a chestnut, or something like that.
Beverley
How did you get it to sort of fade out?
Elina
With a brush application and using the state of fabric, so it can be a bit loose like that. I'll show you how it looks. Where's my phone? Here are some pictures. So I also developed this one. There is one in front of the table.
Beverley
Oh, this looks fantastic.
Elina
So the table was for the product design piece, and I just created those.
Beverley
It worked out really well.
Elina
I also like the idea of minimalism, a very sort of simplicity of being, without complicating things. But that's a different way of thinking, I guess, and developing ideas. It's more, I guess, for the design. It's design driven, rather than art driven, if that makes sense. And, I also like the idea of working for a specific site; you've probably seen this installation in front of the RCA Studio building.
Beverley
Yes, I think, it's really effective.
Elina
Thank you. So I was specifically developing it for that place, choosing the colour palette, the shapes, the forms.
Beverley
The forms echo the architectural shapes, yet at the same time, create another kind of vista from the natural world, augmenting the architecture.
Elina
Thank you. And this is created from another discarded fabric and natural dyes as well. This is indigo and tamarind paste. See, I think site specific installations is also very interesting thing for me.
Beverley
I think in site specific installations I find there's that element of the challenge, as well, of the actual space and how you link your work to the space. And, I think also it creates different kinds of layers, a sort of negotiation and a dialogue between your works and the space and it becomes a different space, somewhere between the two.
Elina
And, I guess it creates a different experience for the viewers as well. The space becomes perceived in a completely different light. And that's what I kept on hearing about this installation. People were saying, the tutors, staff and students as well, saying, oh my God, it makes such a difference - Before it was just this sad tunnel corridor nothing exciting. It just lit up the space.
Beverley
Yeah, that's it. It just somehow made it come alive. Previously, it had this industrial feeling, so I think it really changed it totally. It was really inspiring.
Elina
Thank you, I really enjoyed working on that one. I do like the idea of a project, generally speaking, where you work towards a brief of some kind. I guess in site specific installations, there’s a lot of that.
